For the sake of integrity, and attributing quotes correctly and contextually, I present this to you as a narrative in the style of books like I Want My MTV and Those Guys Have All the Fun.
The players:
- Barry Krippene
- Matt Daggett
- James Malone (that’s me!)
This conversation picks up in a thread as part of an ongoing, interminable, argue-until-one-of-us-dies conversation about sports. The topic is regularly the NFL (particularly if the 49ers or Packers are playing), occasionally MLB (usually to lament Dave Roberts or the overall futility of the Oakland A’s), but most often, and most passionately, the NBA is the the focal point. The speakers herein are, in the order listed above, a Sacramento Kings fan, a Portland Trail Blazers fan, and a Boston Celtics fan. The most unbiased, fair-minded Boston Celtics fan to ever rationally discuss James Naismith’s creation, I should add.
To this point, the conversation had been progressing a few days regarding Larry Bird’s standing in the pantheon of NBA legends. Specifically, could he stack up to that other small forward who almost a decade ago (!!) took his talents to South Beach. The thread, after laying dormant for 12 hours or 2 days, was reignited by this incredibly ice-cold take, courtesy of Nick Wright:
Matt Daggett: Nick Wright is the biggest LeBron lover on the planet. He’s just a tad biased. You guys will not like his opinions of King James.
James Malone: I’m not saying I agree with him, but is an interesting take. I mean, calling Jordan a complete loser is dumb, especially given James’ Finals record. I do very much agree with his point about NBA teams in the East during Jordan’s run. Bird owned Jordan. Jordan knew it, too.
Author’s note: Michael Jordan was 11-17 versus Larry Bird in his career. Not exactly “ownage”, to be sure, but as I said, one of will have to die.
Barry Krippene: Are we pretending that the guy almost everybody considers the GOAT was just… lucky? Because I watched him play and I know you did, too, and I’m pretty sure that what he (Nick Wright) is calling luck is what most called “excellence”. Bird had an All-Star team around him. You’ve said it yourself. So did Magic.
JM: Jordan is the GOAT, no doubt about that. Bird still owned him. Jordan had fantastic timing. Magic got sick, Bird threw out his back, Len Bias and Reggie Lewis died, and Kevin McHale retired at like 28. That doesn’t diminish what Jordan did. The stars aligned.
BK: Bird and his Merry Band of All-Stars beat him.
JM: Correct. Because Bird owned Jordan. Look, Steph has owned LeBron, but that doesn’t mean that Steph is “better”.
Author’s Note: LeBron and Steph are currently 10-10 in head-to-head matchups. Doesn’t really seem that way, does it? I guess not all games are created equal, unless you are trying to apologize for LeBron James.
BK: That also doesn’t mean Steph “owns” LeBron either.
How correct you were, Barry.
JM:
BK: If you give Steph the Pistons, he isn’t owning anybody. Shoot, besides the Kings, Steph isn’t owning anybody this year.
Author’s note: I have to appreciate the backhanded slap directed at the loathsome Pistons.
MD: Bird was older than Jordan. That’s like saying that Jordan owned Kobe.
JM: Jordan did not own Kobe, and that is not the same. Jordan came into the league in 1984. Bird had been in the league for… 4 years? When Kobe came into the league, Jordan had been in the league for like 13 years. We have a tendency to forget that Jordan was 30 already when he won his first championship. And he was absolutely badass, dude. Unquestionably, the greatest. But… he couldn’t beat the Celtics. And yes, the 1986 Celtics should have beat the 23 year-old Jordan and the Bulls. And they did.
Kobe was 5-3 versus Jordan. Jordan was also on the Wizards.
MD: Jordan had nothing, though. You had arguably the greatest team of the decade.
BK: We’re not gonna convince him of the truth, Matt.
MD: We’re in agreement. Just don’t tell me Bird was better than Jordan.
JM: Bird is better than everyone not named Michael Jordan. And Bird owned Jordan.
MD: No. He. Is. Not. Bird is not even the greatest Celtic of all-time.
JM: I don’t understand why it matters if Bird was older, or if he “should have won”. Magic and the Lakers “should have” beat Jordan in 1991. But they didn’t. Because they didn’t have Larry Bird. I mean, it is a useless gesture, but I would bet my life that the 1986 Celtics would beat the 1996 Bulls.
So much must one of us die that I have now wagered my life.
MD: The ’91 Lakers were swept by the Bulls, who were insanely better than the Lakers by that time. They beat the Blazers, who straight up choked in the 1991 Western Conference Finals. That 90-91 team is the best Blazers team I’ve ever seen. We were a fuckin’ machine.
JM: All true. Those Blazers teams were fun, dude. I really wanted Drexler to get one, and not in Houston, that sucked.
MD: Can you tell I’m still pissed? Just couldn’t finish when it mattered. I was happy for Drexler at the time. Had no idea he would completely erase his Blazers existence from his mind. That was a bummer.
JM: Do you think Jordan woulda won 8 in a row if he had stayed in the league? Could they have beat the Rockets? We know they woulda beat the Knicks.
Never miss an opportunity to make fun of the Knicks.
MD: That’s. The. Question. Wish we would have seen it.
JM: Did Drexler leave angry?
MD: I would hope not. We traded him to Houston, as he’s from Houston. We didn’t get equal value at all. He’s like the ex-girlfriend that just pretends you didn’t have a thing. It hurts.
BK: Malone, are you mad that Larry only won 3, even though he had an All-Star cast around him and Jordan won 6 and took a two-year baseball vacation?
MD: Ooooh. Shots fired. Barry. And fuck this “only 3” shit. You and I would kill for one. God, the Blazers are awful. Blazers at Bucks tomorrow. That’s gonna be weird.
BK: Seriously, though, You kinda sound like me hating on John Elway. (even though Elway is not the Jordan of the NFL).
Barry now backhand slaps Elway. Well-played.
JM: I’m not hating on Michael Jordan. He’s undeniably the greatest of all time. You guys are hating on Larry Bird.
MD: Not at all. He’s top 10, unarguably. Maybe top 5. But #2 right behind MJ? That’s where tyou lose me.
BK: I get it. You’re trying to scooch Bird into the Jordan conversation.
JM: I’m sad that the Celtics had a string of misfortune, starting with Len Bias, but it also led to Pierce, KG, and Ray Allen, which in turn led to Nets draft picks, which led to Tatum and Brown.
BK: I don’t think Bird is Top 10.
MD: You also don’t think LeBron is Top 10.
BK: Not trying to hate, but I’ve seen as good or better NBA players.
MD: I would love to see your Top 5 Barry:
- Jordan
- Oscar Robertson
- Mike Bibby
- Peja
- Doug Christie
BK: I don’t believe I’ve said that.
JM: Do those as good or better players have back-to-back MVPs and three championships?
BK: How many MVPs does Drew Brees have?
MD: Not sure. NFL MVP is not the same as NBA MVP, in my opinion. Oscar Robertson is the greatest King of all time, he just didn’t play in Sacramento. Also, looked it up. Zero. What’s your point exactly?
BK: He’s not an instant Hall of Famer? Way better than Elway was? Bird had an All-Star cast.
JM: Are you about to make the case that MVPs do not matter? I’ll hear it out. Still, that doesn’t change what happened on the court. Bird owned the league for at least 5 years. Jordan, Magic, Hakeem, they all fell.
MD:
- Michael Jordan
- LeBron James
- Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
- Bill Russell
- Magic Johnson
- Larry Bird
- Hakeem Olajuwon
- Wilt Chamberlain
I’d have to think about nine and ten for a bit as you’re getting into Curry and KD territory and their careers aren’t done yet. And not necessarily in that order. I’d have to think on that, as well. But I have LeBron behind Jordan.
JM: LeBron had an All-Star cast in Miami. So did Magic Johnson in L.A. So does Phoenix right now. So did Brooklyn last year. I’ll accept Bird at 6, but you’ve gotta put Magic at 7, at least, then.
BK: Did Jordan?
JM: Pippen, Rodman, Ron Harper, Toni Kukoc.
BK: No Shaq or Kobe, huh?
MD: I’d take Magic over Bird, personally, but it’s close. Not necessarily, on Shaq and Kobe. Like I said, I have to think about it. My problem is that Shaq was lazy and relied on his god-given talent. He didn’t put in work like those other guys. Although, you can make the same argument for Wilt, and I put him in there.
JM: Wilt would not be in my top 10.
MD: That’s a take I’ve heard. I have no time for someone not putting LeBron in their top 10. None.
BK: Y’all grab players you never saw play and claim they are better than anyone in the last 20 years. Even though you admit the competition is much better nowadays. Confusing.
JM: LeBron is 3rd. MJ and Bird were both better. They had their careers cut short. I don’t wanna penalize longevity, but… he is LeBron, so F*** him.
MD: “He is LeBron, so F*** him”. So, you’re biased.
JM: I’m biased towards reality.
BK: I think Kobe was better than Bird and Magic.
MD: Disagree there, Johnny Most.
JM: Dude, Kobe took like 50 shots a game. But I’d rather have a guy with Kobe’s mentality than LeFlop’s.
The petty is starting to emerge, if it wasn’t there already. Kobe only averaged 19.5 shots per game. Other than that, though, I see no pettiness.
BK: You’re biased towards your own teams, Malone! Kobe won 5 rings.
MD: I account for careers cut short. If that’s the case, put Walton in there. We rolled teams from March of ’77 to March of ’78. Might be the greatest 12-month stretch of NBA basketball ever. 5 rings is more than Bird. LeBron has won 4, also more than Bird.
JM: Of course I am biased towards my teams, I do not deny it. But, if championships equate to greatness, then Robert Horry is the second-best player ever behind Bill Russell. So, that sounds alright to me. Steve Kerr has more rings than Kobe Bryant. I am biased, but I have also said nothing untrue, regarding Larry Bird’s record or stats.
BK: Dude, Larry Bird is 23rd on this list. Seems like a lot of modern players are pretty competitive with all of the great ones, except one.
JM: Yeah, and obviously Neil Johnston is better than Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.
BK: Stats don’t lie. I mean, sometimes the truth is stranger than fiction. Neil Johnston, being the only non-household name, is the only problem you have?
JM: PER takes fouls into consideration. It’s a wonder why guys like LeBron get to be high on this list while guys like Larry and Steph are regularly brutalized and get no calls. And yes, I do have other problems. Is Anthony Davis better than Tim Duncan? Stop it.
BK: Stats do lie, then? Either we use stats to sort this out or we’re basing it solely on opinion. Bird has the highest win percentage BUT his efficiency rating is 23rd. Seems like he had a lot more help than you’re willing to admit.
JM: Stats don’t lie, but those who manipulate them regularly do. All the time. PER is a good stat, but there are aspects (like foul calls) that players cannot control. James Harden is many things, but efficient? Does that pass the eye test for you? What would you rather have? The highest winning percentage or the highest efficiency rating?
One of us will die.
BK: I don’t know, man. At this point, it feels like we’re cherry picking some things and discouting others to reach whatever conclusion we want to fit our narrative.
JM: Bingo! Sports! Which leads me to this: Larry Bird is GOATED behind Michael Jordan.
BK: I just can’t imagine many players from the 1980s matching up against today’s greats except Jordan.
JM: That may be true, unless you factor in Larry Bird being given the same fitness regimen that Kevin Durant has.
BK: I don’t remember watching Larry Bird jog let alone run up and down the court back then.
JM: Dude, do not make me send you a 10 minute highlight reel.
BK: The players today are so, so much better than yesterday and Jordan is the only one, I think, who could ball in today’s game. Bird would be good, don’t get me wrong, but not great. Plus, and you’ve already admitted this one, the Celtics had a powerhouse team with our without him.
JM: He made them a powerhouse. Before Larry, they hadn’t been good since 1976. Barry, I cannot handle this Larry Bird heresy.
BK: I mean, I guess Larry and Macho Man were pretty okay, for their time….
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